Thread: Starts with a *jolt*!

When my well starts, it often -- but not always -- starts with a jolt that shakes all of the supply piping in the basement. I have a submerged pump feeding thru a check valve to a tee. One leg of the tee is runs to the load (the water softener, and then the rest of the house), while the other leg of the tee contains the pressure switch, a pressure gauge, a safety blow-off, and the pressure tank. All components are less than 2 years old. Here's a pic of the setup:

http://www.antrobus.us/watersoftener/20050326b.jpg

http://www.antrobus.us/watersoftener/20050326c.jpg

Initially, I took the listed 40 - 60 psi range of the pressure switch at face-value, and set my tank's bladder (when drained) at 38 psi. This resulted in hard starts, and my theory was that the pressure must be too high, causing the system to run completely dry for a fraction of a second before the well pump kicks on (if the bladder pressure is higher than the cut-in pressure, it will push all of the water out of the tank before the well cuts in). This theory seemed to be confirmed by the fact that my first pressure switch, which was of the variety that would reset any time it lost pressure, was constantly resetting itself. I replaced that switch with another 40 - 60 psi one lacking that "safety feature", but never got rid of the hard starts.

My pressure gauge seems to stick a bit (the needle jumps by as much as 10psi when water is flowing and I flick it with my finger), so it's tough to get an exact reading on my cut-in and cut-out pressures, but as near as I can figure it, my cut-in pressure is 36psi. So, I drained the system dry, set the pressure in the bladder to 34psi, and figured that should do it. When I tested the system after doing this, it seemed much better the first time. Eventually, however, the problem came back! I believe that my problem may be due to a pressure switch that cuts on/off at inconsistent pressures. Does anyone have any experience with this? Am I correct in my theory that I should err on the low side, if anything, when setting the pressure in the tank? What if I set the tank pressure as low as 28 or 30 psi when the system is drained? I'm not sure how much "headroom" the tank has, to deal with a situation where the bladder pressure is set too low.

Thanks in advance,
Rick

Remove the above ground check valve.

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I agree, and you might give that State tank a push to the side to see if it's full of water. You should be able to turn the water on, shut the power off to the pump and see the pressure suddenly stop when the tank becomes completely empty. This should happen at the same pressure you pre set it to. If it keeps changing, the tank is probably bad.

bob...


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Valveman,

What's your theory behind the check valve? It's not a big deal to remove (an hour of work for me to drain the system, cut it out, and sweat a new pipe in place), but I'm not looking to hap-hazardly remove/replace components without reason either. Why do you expect this to help?

Speedbump,

I did this, and was a little surprised to see my pressure gauge must be off by a good bit. IIRC, my pump switch should be 40-60psi, and it does seem to be charging to 60psi before the cut-out is reached. However, when I killed power to the pump and let the system drain (thru a faucet one floor above) I found that the pump switch actuated when the pressure gauge read 32 psi, and I finally lost system pressure when the pressure gauge read 26 psi. My tire gauge tells me that I have the tank charged to 34 psi, so one of these two gauges is lying, but it seems irrefutable that my tank pressure is set about 6 psi lower than my cut-in. Is this good/bad? It's a bit more than the manufacturer-recommended 2 psi, but I wouldn't expect 6 psi to make much difference. If anything, it helps take care of any variance in the cut-in point.

Thanks again,
Rick

The reason I said rock the tank was to see if it was full of water. That brand is not the top of the line by any stretch.

I agree with Valveman. Remove the check valve and the hammer will probably go away. It will also let you know that you probably have a leak between the pump and the check valve.

bob...


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I checked the tank, and it's full of water when pressurized, and empty after I depressurize it. It may not be a high-quality tank, but it's just over 1 year old, so no problems have developed with it (yet).

I'm still missing the checkvalve theory. Can someone explain why removing the check valve will solve this problem? The check valve is installed up-stream of all of this, right where the supply from the well pump comes into the house.

The schematic is something like this:



Thanks,
Rick

The water sortener is not really between the pump and tank.

Let me try it this way. If you have a leak down the well somewhere and the pump turns off. The water in the lines is going to try to run back down. Since there is nowhere for air to get in to take the water's place, a vacuum is drawn. Now there is nothing between that check valve and the water at the other end of the vacuum. Pump turns on --- WHAM the water hits the check valve and noise is heard.

bob...


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Bob,

I read you loud and clear now on the check valve! I'll remove it and see what that tells me.

The house draws through the water softener. It's teed into the line between the well and the tank, as drawn.

Thanks again!

Rick

But it's not actually between the pump and tank. The water can go either way from and to the tank. If the softener were actually between the tank and pump/pressure switch, you would have problems.

bob...


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But Bob, he's got it drawing in between the pump and tank...

Rancher