Thread: Worry hot jet pump? + photos

Hello,

Reposted with pictures.

Thanks to this informative forum, I have learned a great deal on pumps & tanks. Especially from ‘speedbump – bob’. From all the readings, I have the following 7 questions – (1) What is the life expectancy of a Rapidayton jet pump? (2) Are jet pumps designed to perform 24/7 over cycle every 10 minutes? (3) Would it causes unnecessary wear and tear to run a jet pump for over 30/60/90 minutes continuously with water/liquid (this is not dry air)?

I am establishing a 4,000 square feet new lawn that would need watering twice daily; most likely 2 x 120 minutes daily, say 7- 9 am, and 6 -8pm.

I have a Rapidayton W13194 (MODEL 7CLT, Ser# D77, HP ¾, VOLTS 115/230, AMPS 11.4/5.9, RPM 3450, FR56J, Hz 60, in use when I move in 1976, or at least 30 years continuous gentle use; never abused) with a ‘Well-X-Trol’ Professional (WX-202, 20 gal. installed May 2005 with new white pipes). The pressure is set at 25/40 psig. The pump is powered by 110 volts house current.

The pump body gets warm to touch after initial 10 minutes continuous pumping; and very warm after another 5 minutes (total 15 minutes). I figure this would be similar to a long shower. I baby sat the pump when the sprinkler was running (max water pressure at 40 psig.). The tank dial drops to 26 from 40(max) in 2 minutes. The pump kicks on as the tank dial reads 26, and returns the tank dial to 40 psig within 4 minutes with the sprinkler running concurrently. The pump would keep running with both tank dial and pump dial register 40 psig. If the pump runs on without any stop, just gets warmer, I would understand. However the pump would shut off irregularly, randomly at 9, 13, and 23 minutes, after it restarts at 26 psig (tank dial). (4) Is there an ‘overheat protection’ for the jet pump? (5) What would fail first: the electric relay? Or the electric pump?

(6) How to determine when it is a good/reasonable time to ‘rest’ the electric jet pump? When the pump body is very warm to touch, and the exhaust air is very warm? Currently, 2nd date of watering the new lawn, I’ve adopted the 20/50 minutes run/cool cycle during the day. I prioritize pump preservation over a speedy new lawn. (7) Am I overly cautious?


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I sold a lot of those pumps, mostly verticals though. They were a great pump and lasted a long time. You are proof of that.

The best thing for a motor and pump is to run it continuously throughout the sprinkling cycle. Cycling a motor is the worst thing you can do to it. The heat you feel is normal and will not hurt the motor in the least. Heating and cooling a lot is much worse than just heating to it's normal temp and keeping it there.

If the sprinklers aren't using enough water to keep the pump running, set the pressure high enough so it won't cycle.

bob...

Products and Pricing

Thanks bob for your swift reply and info on 'the best thing for a motor & pump is to run it continuously throughout the sprinkling cycle'. No more uneducated '20/50 minutes' 'run/cool' cycles. I've been set straight on this.
Please give me a hint on how to set the pressure high enough so the sprinkler would use enough water to keep the pump running. Currently, the jet pump replenishes the WellXTrol tank, to 40 from 26 psig, faster than the sprinkler uses. Thus the pump cycles randomly between 5 to 23 minutes (yes, I sat next to the jet pump with a stop watch and notebook for more than 1 day). My sprinkler (at the end of a 100 ft. garden hose) is hooked on to the outside garden spigot. Through a 'Y', a hand sprayer (at the end of a 50 ft. hose) is also attached. At 40 psig, the sprinkler streams are about 8 ft. verticle. With the handsprayer on simultaneously, the streams are down to 3 ft. verticle. For yard area coverage, I have to dedicate the spigot to the sprinkler, and cannot increase the water consumption rate by running a sprayer off the Y on the same spigot.

The plumbing pipe sizes are: 3/4" dia. from the WellXTrol tank; 1/2" dia. T to the outside garden spigot. Standard spigot size, standard Y size. In my home, the laundry line, sink/shower faucet lines are all 1/2". Please suggest the trick to use enough water to keep the jet pump running? Thanks for your time in advance!

Simply turn the nut on the pressure switch clockwise on the tall spring (if you have a tall and short one) until the pump keeps running. Your pump should not be able to make more than 70 psi, so you shouldn't have to turn it too much. Once you turn off the sprinkler, the pump should go higher to the shut off pressure and turn off.

bob...

Products and Pricing

Where is the pressure switch located? Attached photo shows 3 things located on top of my Rapidayton jet pump: (from left to right are a gray box/ a blue nut/ a gauge). Is the middle blue nut the pressure switch which I should turn clockwise to increase the jet pump upper pressure setting to above 40 psi (current setting)? Or is this nut on the pressure switch is inside the gray box?

Sorry, I forgot to lockin last time.
Here is the attached photo.

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The pressure switch is the gray box, it's a "square" D brand, take the cover off, there will probably be two nuts on top of springs, get a nut driver, turn the center/tallest one clockwise.

Rancher

Hello, Rancher, Thanks. I opened up the gray 'Square D' and saw the 'longer, middle located' hex nut. A curious question on pump/tank pressure readings from my observations in the past two days. Hope there is not a problem with my 2 years old blue WellXTrol (Professional Series) tank. How would a 'higher cut off pressure setting at the pump' affect the tank pressure? Would the tank 'feed back' pressure, >x or 60+ psi, be higher than the pump 'cut off pressure', say x or 60 psi, in order to trigger the pump to stop pumping because the tank is full? Or the tank pressure of 60 psi should be enough to trigger the pump with setting of 60 psi? My pump-tank-system is set at 26/40 psi. Usually, the pump stops when the blue tank gauge reaches 40 psi.(This has been the range since 1986 when I moved in. ++correction on my move-in date, NOT 1976 as I wrote earlier. My wife caught me embellishing again. However, the Rapidayton jet pump could still have been in use for 30+ years in this old house. I do not have the purchase & installation receipt/record++). See photo 1862, while running the sprinkler, the pump gauge dial stays at 40psi, the tank gauge goes up to 50+psi (10 psi beyond the 40 psi preset). Photo 1863 is a close up of the tank gauge at 50 psi, and 1864 is a close up of the pump gauge at 40 psi (which hardly moves). These three photos were taken within 5 seconds of each other . Could this be a sign of the bladder inside the tank been 'stretched'? Or could the Square D sensor be 'off'? Sorry for being so verbose. Thanks for your time in advanced.

Willie

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quote:Originally posted by Willie How would a 'higher cut off pressure setting at the pump' affect the tank pressure?

Pressure at the tank, and pump should be the same.

quote:Originally posted by WillieWould the tank 'feed back' pressure, >x or 60+ psi, be higher than the pump 'cut off pressure', say x or 60 psi, in order to trigger the pump to stop pumping because the tank is full? Or the tank pressure of 60 psi should be enough to trigger the pump with setting of 60 psi?

Whew, that made my little Engineer brain spin... Soooo the answer is basically water is incompressible, (not really but it turns to ice when compressed) so your pressure at the tank is the same at the pump.

quote:Originally posted by WillieSee photo 1862, while running the sprinkler, the pump gauge dial stays at 40psi, the tank gauge goes up to 50+psi (10 psi beyond the 40 psi preset). Photo 1863 is a close up of the tank gauge at 50 psi, and 1864 is a close up of the pump gauge at 40 psi (which hardly moves). These three photos were taken within 5 seconds of each other . Could this be a sign of the bladder inside the tank been 'stretched'?

I would suspect the gauge at the tank to be bad, actually I would replace both of them if you think you need two, most people get by just fine with one that works...

quote:Originally posted by WillieOr could the Square D sensor be 'off'?

No.

Rancher

I would have put the tank closer to the pump, and got rid of any fittings I could, to get rid of some of the pressure loss built into the installation as it is now. I would also have used 1" sch 40 PVC (at least to the tank) instead of 3/4" and I would have gotten rid of all galvanized.

rancher... the two gauges will not read the same when he is using water (dynamic water pressure); because of those pressure losses in the plumbing and distance from the pump to the tank etc..... and you're telling him to replace gauges when you really don't know if either is bad; or if one is bad, which one. He can check each with an air pressure gauge if you can figure out how to do that and tell him.

Willie, remove the gauge on the pump and the pressure switch. Then clean the hole in the switch and the hole in the nipple it screws onto and repalce the gauge with a 1/8" or 1/4" back mount model. Since you have it off, replacing it may be better than trying to clean it out of rust etc..

You might want to replace the switch with a 40/60 psi one too. I think the gauge and switch nipple is blocked up and they aren't seeing the pressure change in real time; IOWs they may be lagging some.

Gary
Quality Water Associates
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
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