Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Only Two Wires from the pump ??

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oxnard, California, USA.
    Posts
    13

    Only Two Wires from the pump ??

    Hello All!

    I've just purchased some land in Missouri near Shell Knob. (I am currently located in California.) The land has been vacant for a couple of years. I was told by my Realtor that the pump was replaced approx. three years ago, but he has no other information regarding the type of pump or depth of the well etc.

    I am relying on friends out there to get me as much information as they can provide.

    I phoned a local Well Guy in the area, and he said to the best of his knowledge older wells with steel casings in that area were usually drilled to a depth of 300 feet with a water depth of 60 feet from the top of the well. No guarantees though. Because I don't know when the well was dug, or the owners of the property at that time, I am finding it very difficult to obtain any information.

    My Friends have just phoned from property, and have stated that inside of the well house, they are looking at a 6" steel cased well with a Well Seal cap. The well pipe looks to be a 1" Galv. with a Galv. Tee just above the well seal. The tee is plugged on the top, and has a 1" PVC supply line leading out of it. I had already seen pictures, so this is no surprise to me. The Tank has been stolen, and the wires have been cut, so nothing is connected.

    Dang Thieves & Vandals! I was hoping to leave all of that kind of behavior here in California when I leave.

    My question is regarding the pump wiring of course. My friends state that there are only two wires coming out of the well seal from the pump. A Red Wire & a Yellow Wire. From what I have been reading, two wire pumps should have a third green ground wire. However there are no other wires.

    So... In order for me to find out if the pump works at all, how do I connect the wiring? Is it possible to determine which is the lead and which is the ground? Could this be a 240V pump? How can I make a determination prior to supplying power to anything and frying it all?

    I am hoping to get as much information as I can prior to moving onto this property in May. I won't have Internet access there, and am probably going to buy a new pump to take with me in the likely event that the current pump is bad. However, I don't want to have to pull it unless I need to, or until I get my RV fully set up there and get the water tested etc.

    Thanks in advance.
    Gregory


    -G
    -G

  2. #2
    quote:Originally posted by RVGregoryZ
    My friends state that there are only two wires coming out of the well seal from the pump. A Red Wire & a Yellow Wire. From what I have been reading, two wire pumps should have a third green ground wire. However there are no other wires.
    Red and Yellow can kill a fellow, Red and Black is a friend to Jack... wait, that's only true in Coral Snakes and King Snakes.

    Typically (and Bob will tell me if I'm wrong) Red and Yellow means that it used to have a pump controler, and there should be a black wire also. Pumps didn't use to need a green wire ground, however that may have changed, after all it's real hard to touch the pump and get electrocuted, which is what the green wire ground does for you.

    Ask your realtor if wells in Missouri are registered, most states require it, and if so there is a record of how deep, how much water, and static water level. But nothing about the Pump, call every well and pump guy in the area and you should be able to find out who replaced the pump 3 years ago.

    Oh, and I worked at Port Hueneme for about 4 years a long long time ago.

    Rancher

  3. #3
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oxnard, California, USA.
    Posts
    13
    Ok Rancher,

    So what your saying, is that there is possibility a that black wire might exist, but it could have either been cut too close to the well cap and my friends didnt see it, or, that the black wire has completely fallen down below the well cap. And, that if it is a two wire setup, that the installer may have just used some non-standard wire type to hook things up. (I read between the lines on this.) GREAT!! More encouragement.

    I've already contacted the state and they were not keeping records prior to 1987. I'm working on calling the pump drillers in the area, but I only have the last owner's name. I am not sure how long they had owned the property. There is really only on Pump Guy there, and he doesn't recall putting in the newest pump. He seems like a friendly guy, and said that he will ask around on my behalf to try and get some answers. I'll keep working on that information.

    So many variables.

    I figured it was a long shot to figure out anything. I suppose I will just have to pull the darn pump once I get there to figure out what the heck I've got.

    Your down in Texas now aren't you? I must say, I am going to miss the weather here in Cali., but I'm not going to miss the over population and backed up roadways. Originally I am from Wichita, Kansas. So going back after 5 years shouldn't be too much of a climate shock.

    Thanks for the reply,


    -G

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Wherever we park the motorhome, , USA.
    Posts
    569
    Submersible two wire pumps come in 120 or 240 volts. For 240 both lines have 120 on them and no ground is needed (but could be required now). The color of the wires used for 2 wire pumps are not important. They are for 3 wire pumps.

    Pulling 300' of galvanized is pretty difficult especially if you haven't done it before and don't have the tools.

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates
    www.qualitywaterassociates.com
    Softener Forum

  5. #5
    Pump guy speedbump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Murphy, NC. USA.
    Posts
    11,785
    Gary's right about the weight of the galvanized and the pump.

    Rancher is right on with the wire colors. I have never seen a red and yellow without a black. The green is optional as per age.

    It is likely you will end up pulling the pump if you can't see the black wire and aren't able to make a connection to the control box which has probably also been stolen.

    If the pipe is 1" coming up through the well seal, it would be my guess that the motor is no more than a 1.5hp. And more likely a 1/2hp.

    bob...

    Products and Pricing

  6. #6
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oxnard, California, USA.
    Posts
    13
    quote: Pulling 300' of galvanized is pretty difficult especially if you haven't done it before and don't have the tools.
    I am sure that it is going to be a challenge, but I am up for it. At least with it being a 6" well, I have less worries that it will get stuck. I've had some experience working with galv. pipe, and I'm confident I can handle it all. But like I said, I am sure it will be a challenge.

    When I do pull the pump and find that it isn't a full 300', I would like to replace the pipe with Poly. I figure it will be easier to install and not corrode and cause friction loss. What is the deepest depth you would use Poly pipe on?



    -G

  7. #7
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oxnard, California, USA.
    Posts
    13
    Well, I guess it is unanimous. I'll just have to pull the pump when I get there. [8]

    quote:
    If the pipe is 1" coming up through the well seal, it would be my guess that the motor is no more than a 1.5hp. And more likely a 1/2hp.

    bob...
    Bob,
    I know you are a big 2 Wire supporter, and frankly I don't think I want all of the hassles of the 3 wire control box. So, what are the issues if I plan to purchase in advance, a 4" 1.5hp 15 gal. pump not knowing what I really need? I am wanting to have a pump there ready to install, and not have to wait on it being delivered, after I have the existing pump pulled.



    -G

  8. #8
    Pump guy speedbump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Murphy, NC. USA.
    Posts
    11,785
    If your driller is correct about the water level (and I would think he should know) it would be safe to assume your going to use this for the household. If this is the case, a 1/2hp would be more in order for what you need. A 1hp at most would do a lot more than just supply the home. I would also go for a Cycle Stop Valve if your going to set this all up new. Along with a 42 gallon Flexcon bladder tank. Now you have a system that will last a long time and supply lots of constant pressure. With the 1/2hp, the 10 gpm is the most likely suspect and in the 1hp the 20 gpm would be my best choice. The 1.5hp is really not the right pump for that water level. Below are some links for your convenience. And Yes, I do like the two wire over the three wire pump motors.
    Submersible Pumps
    Bladder Tank
    Cycle Stop Valve

    bob...

    Products and Pricing

  9. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oxnard, California, USA.
    Posts
    13
    The Pump Guy I spoke to was not able to give me a correct depth or level, only an educated guess from knowing the area. I haven't been able to find the driller or anyone who really knows what the details are of the well.

    I don't want to be asking a lot of questions that may or may not be relevant until I do have the well information, but I am still trying to get an idea of what I can do.

    My future plans are to build a small 8 space RV Park. These 8 spaces will include myself and my business partner. The 6 additional RV spaces will be located about six to eight hundred feet from the well. So, I was hoping to get a pump that can keep up with the seasonal inconsistent demands of RVs and some landscaping irrigation.

    Does that change the aspects of things much?

    I'm totally sold on the CSV. It is already a "Must Have" for my system. As for the pressure tank, I wasn't sure what size to get. I was figuring I would need a relatively large tank to allow for the various small amounts of water that can be used throughout the day, so the pump does not have to cycle so often.

    quote:
    The 1.5hp is really not the right pump for that water level.
    I've gone through the links, and stupid me, don't understand the relationship of the water level to HP of a pump. I can understand the GPM in regards to the amount of water in the well. I don't want to cause the well to run dry by pumping too much too fast. Right??? Can you try to explain that a bit more to me?



    -G

  10. #10
    Pump guy speedbump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Murphy, NC. USA.
    Posts
    11,785
    Again, not knowing the actual depth, water level and capacity of the well, we are just guessing.

    As a for instance, my 12 neighbors (all small dilapidated mobile homes occupied by mostly illegal aliens. The owner of the property recently bought a 1.5hp pump from me to operate the entire park. I'm sure the water pressure during peak times leaves much to be desired. Especially when the water level there is over 100 feet. With a 20 gallon per minute 1.5hp a decent shutoff pressure can be obtained without fear of burning a pump or motor because of it's inability to reach the desired shut off pressure. But at that depth, the gallons per minute at a desired pressure with a low water level would be far below what an average homeowner would expect.

    Using the 60 foot water level your driller guessed at and assuming your not using much water, the 1.5 hp 20 gpm would suffice. As for having great pressure and wanting to do some irrigation etc, a larger pump might be in order. But I really advise finding out about the well before doing any buying.

    bob...

    Products and Pricing

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •